Person

Is it a person?

Is it a person?

The last thing we want to have to think about is the reality of abortion–the human beings whose lives are being taken in the name ofchoicehealthcare, and equality.

The abortion industry fights hard to keep women and society in general in the dark about the reality of abortion. They do not want women to see their babies on an ultrasound screen, because when one sees a beating heart, kicking legs, waving arms, thumb-sucking, and yawning, it tends to burst the bubble of denial.

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55 comments
  1. Chris said:

    24 Reasons for 24 Weeks

    Let’s hear from a woman on this subject. The right to abort lies with women. There must be a point when a sperm becomes a baby, we debate it often in modern democracies throughout the world.

    Yet another example of the evangelical christians making it their business to run the lives of others through their distorted doctrine.

    Every sperm is not sacred, and there has to be a definition of when ‘life’ beings, i.e. when it can exist independently outside the Mother’s womb. Advances in medical science continue to blur this, but it should, as it is, be regularly reviewed.

    This is how the debate should be pursued and not with a jingoistic image of a foetus, that to me, looks over 24 weeks old.

    http://www.redpepper.org.uk/24-reasons-for-24-weeks/

  2. This is the first reason supporting abortion from the article you linked to:

    1) There has been no improvement in the survival rates of infants born before the 24-week time limit during the past decade, according to the British Medical Association.

    Please note that the author calls the human in the womb an infant. Please in the name of compassion, in the name of humanity, just focus on the picture, it’s a person Chris. Please don’t harden you conscience. We can be on the same team on this issue at least. Killing persons or infants is simply morally reprehensible, it’s a heinous crime. Please don’t align yourself with this diabolical industry.

  3. Chris Woods said:

    What happens to the soul of an unborn child that dies?

  4. Furthermore, how about the children murdered by Herod in the time of Christ? Or the children killed by other children under Joseph Kony’s LRA? What about the children who survived late term abortions subsequently killed by the recently jailed late-term abortionist Kermit Gosnell?

    2 Samuel 12, 14,31 might help our understanding. David was confident after the death of his son that he would be with him one day. Better yet is Jesus’ command seen in Luke 18:16 when he said that the Kingdom of God belonged to children such as these.

    Ultimately God is sovereign in these matters and we know he is just and merciful. The consensus in christendom has tended to be that there is an age of accountability when a child’s conscience is stirred and they are aware of their nature and sin toward God.

    We have a biblical case to say that the unborn are forgiven by God and allowed to enter into his kingdom when they die.

  5. Chris Woods said:

    In that case there is a very good case for as killing as many unborn infants as possible, thus assuring them of a place in Heaven.
    This must be a much better way of keeping souls out of Hell than annoying people on the streets of Bristol.

  6. Chris Woods said:

    I am confused by your Biblical quotes.

    2 Samuel 12:14-31 is about God killing a baby. This is not a punishment for the father’s adulterous and murderous ways because God has already forgiven him for these heinous crimes. God, rightly and justly kills a newborn baby as a lesson to the father.
    On finding out his son is dead, the father has a wash and a meal and then has sex with his wife. I cannot find the bit where he is sure he will meet his son again.

    As for Luke 18:16, you have interpreted your Bible incorrectly.
    “But Jesus called the children to him and said, ‘Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.’ ”
    The phrase “such as these” (NIV) or “of such” (KJV) translate the Greek correlative adjective toioutos, “pertaining to being like some person or thing mentioned in a context, ‘of such a kind, such as this, like such.’”
    Jesus doesn’t say that the Kingdom belongs to little children, he says that those who inherit or possess the kingdom will be “like” these children.

    Are you sure babies and unborn infants go to Heaven?

  7. Chris Woods said:

    Ironic that you call the killing of unborn infants as ‘diabolical’.
    I can find no instance of the devil killing any babies, born or unborn.

    God, however, has the blood of countless thousands on His hands.
    Other than causing the slow death of David’s newborn, during Noah’s life, He did of course kill every single baby and pregnant mother in the world at one point.

    He ordered the deaths of every man, woman and child in sixty towns in the land of Bashan. (Deuteronomy 3:1-7)
    He killed all the firstborn sons of Egypt. (Exodus 12:29-30)
    Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT has a wonderful line where God describes how, ‘their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.’
    Leviticus 26:21-22 has God saying, ‘I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle.’
    Or Ezekiel 9:5-7 ‘Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.“’

    There are loads of quotes like this. It seems to me that killing babies isn’t diabolical, it’s positively Godly!

  8. Chris Woods said:

    You said that, ‘Killing persons or infants is simply morally reprehensible, it’s a heinous crime.’

    Is God, ‘simply morally reprehensible’?

  9. Chris Woods said:

    You say that…
    “The consensus in christendom has tended to be that there is an age of accountability when a child’s conscience is stirred and they are aware of their nature and sin toward God.”

    There is not a shred of Scripture that suggests this. You have just decided that your baby-killing god is ‘just and merciful’ so it must be true.

    However, let’s assume that you are right. – That there is an age of accountability. What is this age?

    Presumably if a two day old infant with strict Muslim patents dies, it will still go to Heaven as it has not reached the age of accountability. But there must be an age where if it dies on one day it goes to Heaven, to live for evermore in perfect peace… but if it dies the following day, it’s soul will rightly and justly burn in Hell for all eternity. What is this age?

    Your view of the afterlife is entirely binary. Everlasting joy or everlasting torment. When does God flick the switch from innocence to accountable evil?

  10. Chris Woods said:

    There are approximately 133,000,000 live births in the world per year. (38% of all pregnancies.)
    There are approximately 42,000,000 abortions per year. (12% of all pregnancies.)
    52,000,000 of all recognised pregnancies end in miscarriage or stillbirth. (15% of all pregnancies.)
    123,000,000 of all pregnancies are never even known about by the mother and end within the first 5 weeks. (35% of all pregnancies.)
    Therefore mankind is responsible for killing 12% of unborn children and God is responsible for killing 50%.
    He does either through deliberate acts of killing babies in the womb or by creating woman so horrendously badly that 50% of pregnancies will self terminate.

    There are approximately 7,000,000,000 people in world.
    There are approximately 2,265,000,000 Christians. However 1,200,450,000 are Catholics and are therefore idolators and are definitely going to Hell. Let’s assume though that all non-Catholic Christians have followed God’s ten holy laws to the letter. That they have not borne false witness like so many of the creationists you read on your favourite websites. That none of them had pre-marital sex and aren’t sorry about it. (Unlike any of my Christian friends.)
    Let’s assume that all 1.065 billion, (15.2% of the world’s population) are destined are for Heaven…
    When they get there, they will still be outnumbered 13 to 1 by souls who have never been born!

    Is this really what Heaven is like, full of people who have never been born?

  11. Chris Woods said:

    I’ve made a number of points and asked a fair few questions over the last six comments and you have yet to respond to them.

    I really would like your views on what I have said, so I have condensed all of the above, into just one question per posted comment.

    Ironically, you have tagged this post with, ‘Age of Reason’ and ‘Logic’. So, using your reason and logic, please provide me with one word answers to the following questions…

    1) Is killing unborn infants an effective method of keeping souls out of Hell? Yes or No?

    2) Bearing in mind the total lack of Scriptural support for the theory, are you sure babies and unborn infants go to Heaven? Yes or No?

    3) Bearing in mind the huge amount of Biblical baby killing perpetrated by God, compared to the total lack of infanticide perpetrated by the Devil, isn’t murdering children more Godly than diabolical? Yes or No?

    4) Is, as you inferred, God ‘simply morally reprehensible’? Yes or No?

    5) At what age does God decide to damn children rather than reward them? Pick a number between 1 and 18.

    6) The numbers clearly indicate that there are far more people in Heaven than have ever been born. Can this really be true or are your presuppositions tragically and horrendously wrong? Yes or No?

    Your original post starts with the following line…
    ‘The last thing we want to have to think about is the reality of abortion – the human beings whose lives are being taken in the name of choice, healthcare and equality.’

    Choice, healthcare and equality.

    Equality? Really? You are seriously suggesting that women are having abortions as a form of political protest? Or that they do so, so that they can be equal to men? This is sheer nonsense.

    As for healthcare, this sounds like a very good reason indeed to have an abortion. Or do you think a birth that is likely to kill both mother and child should go ahead?

    Choice. There are many reasons why a woman may choose to have an abortion. She may know that she is unable to care properly for the child. She may understand that she will not be able to go to university if she has the child. She may know that the unborn infant has inherited a terrible congenital illness. At the end of the day it is her choice and there is a reason for it. Choosing whether or not to have a child based on circumstance sounds like a much better system than God’s random, indiscriminate killing of unborns through miscarriage.

    Come on Adrian, use some reason and logic and give me some answers…

  12. Chris Woods said:

    Your silence says it all.

  13. We can easily get caught up arguing. The key question in the abortion issue is what is it? If it’s a human being you have to say the violent murder of another human being can never be morally justified.

  14. Chris Woods said:

    Unless it’s God that’s murdering the human beings.
    When God does it, it’s Wonderful and Holy.

  15. Chris Woods said:

    One of the following two statements is true and one of them is false.
    They are mutually exclusive. It is impossible for either both to be true or both be false.

    Would you please copy and paste the true statement as a reply to this comment.

    Statement 1
    GOD IS A BABY KILLER

    Statement 2
    GOD IS NOT A BABY KILLER

  16. Dear Chris, you and your wife are marvellous illustrations of the accuracy and authenticity of God’s Word. The Bible says the fool says in his heart there is no God. In one hand you pretend there is no God and here you are taking from the Christian worldview to make a judgement about the God who gave you the conscience and the senses and reason you use. You know God exists, Romans 1:20 says you are without excuse. My business is not to stand in judgement over the God I adore, but to warn you. The Bible says that he numbers your days, there will come a day when you will die and you will stand before Almighty God. Jesus Christ says that there are sheep and goats. There is no verse about goats becoming sheep. My hope is that you are not a goat being fattened for the slaughter because if that is the case it does not bode well for you. What you need to do is repent, turn from your sin, have faith in Jesus Christ and believe the Gospel. God promises to open his Scriptures for through the power of the Holy Spirit. You can then ask your pastor for help answering the question you posed.

  17. Chris Woods said:

    Dear Adrian, you are a marvelous illustration of the inaccuracy and lack of authenticity of a typical creationist.
    In just one comment you have managed to display five of the stupidest tactics creationists use in debate…

    1) When presented with a truth that he doesn’t like, the creationist will simply ignore it.

    The Bible has many accounts of God killing babies and yet you still can’t tell me this because you don’t like the idea. It raises too many questions that are simply impossible to answer without questioning your faith.

    2) When beaten by an atheist’s logic, the creationist will fall back on Scripture as proof to the contrary.

    This makes no sense. Despite being told repeatedly that quoting Scripture carries no weight and proves nothing, you continue to do so.

    3) The creationist will always insist that atheists know God exists really but they just deny it.

    This is possibly the most annoying thing about creationists. More than anything else, this shows their total lack of empathy and inability to see anything at all from anyone else’s point of view. It is the quintessential typification of a closed-mind. It is also a lie and so proves to the atheist that the creationist is wrong from the outset. Anyone that thinks that proving they are wrong is a good way to win an argument is a fool.

    4) If an atheist continues to tear holes in the creationists argument, the creationist tells him that he cannot know the true answer unless he accepts God into his life first.

    This is just frankly stupid. The rules of logic don’t change with belief systems. A statement of fact is a statement of fact, no matter who says it to whom. To believe otherwise is idiocy.

    5) When all else fails, the last resort of the creationist is to threaten his adversary with eternal damnation.

    Once again, this is a pointless tactic because the atheist doesn’t believe in eternal damnation. To threaten me with something that I know not to exist, just makes you sound ridiculous.

    Your God, should He exist, kills babies. This is not up for discussion. It is a fact. He has done this quite indiscriminately, many times and is documented in the Bible which is His Word and so must be true.

    How, therefore can you be against abortion on Biblical grounds?

    You have failed to address one single point I have raised because, far from being against abortion and baby killing, your God is quite obviously in favour of it.

    Maybe you could ask your pastor for help in answering just some of the points I’ve raised.

  18. So you think it ridiculous to warn you of something you ‘know’ doesn’t exist. How do you know? What is the authority you are using to make this knowledge claim? Is it your senses and reasoning? Remember, you’ve already admitted you might be wrong about everything you know, you have abandoned knowledge and yet you still make these knowledge claims. Someone could say they don’t believe in words, you wouldn’t take them to a dictionary to prove the existence of words, you’d call them a fool.

    “The fool says in his heart there is not God” (Psalm 14:1), For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made, (Romans 1:19,20).
    un
    God existence is not in question here but the fate of your proud stubborn heart. Remember also, I entirely empathise with you for only a few short years ago I was just where you are, loving my sin and determined to live as I wanted with disregard for the God I knew existed, and who had given me life and poured out his precious blood for me that I might receive His forgiveness. These are not threats, these are warning, offered because I care.

    God is love, but it is not a pampering love, it’s correcting and developing love that wants the best for you. However, his love is perfect and just so he cannot and will not reward those who have broken his laws. You know that only a corrupt judge would allow a guilty criminal to escape punishment. No sin, no matter how trivial you may want to make it, will go unpunished. You will not go to hell for not believing in Jesus Christ, you will go to hell for your sin. He has taken the punishment you righty deserve, all you need do is avail yourself of that gift by repenting, turning to God, believe the Gospel and put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

    150,000 people will die today, I hope you don’t.

  19. Chris Woods said:

    You have not passed comment about your baby killing god, thereby using stupid tactic number 1. (Again.)
    You have quoted scripture. Using stupid tactic 2. (Again.)
    You tell me that I am like you were, “disregard for the God I knew existed,” Using offensively stupid tactic 3. (Again.)
    You have not used stupid tactic 4 in this comment. Well done. (Although your nonsense regarding needing authority to know things and abandoning knowledge is dangerously close.)
    You have threatened me with punishment upon death. Using stupid tactic 5. (Again.) And don’t tell me that you are not threatening but warning. – Does a gangster merely warn of bad things that can happen if you don’t pay the protection money?

    You have used four and a half out of the five tactics that I have just told you were stupid and pointless.

    Do you have Alzheimer’s or are you actually just really thick?

  20. You are using your senses and reasoning to come by the judgements aren’t you?

  21. Chris Woods said:

    (Yawn)
    I don’t know what judgements you are referring to but…
    Yes, I am using my senses and reasoning to come by the judgements.

  22. Chris Woods said:

    So with 50% of unborn children naturally miscarrying…
    plus all the infants dying as a result of abortion…
    and then all the children of all faiths dying that haven’t reached the magic age of accountability…
    and given the very small percentage of born again Christians in the world…

    You are aware that the vast majority of souls in Heaven aren’t Christians?

  23. Chris Woods said:

    You’ve tagged this post with ‘logic’.
    Using logic on what you have said so far, the comment above must be true.
    When you get to Heaven, most people there will either not have heard of Christ or actually worshiped someone else before they died.

    Can this really be correct or do think perhaps you were wrong with some of your assumptions?

  24. Chris Woods said:

    Here’s a good site, http://miscarriage.about.com/od/onetimemiscarriages/p/chemicalpreg.htm which I quote from as follows…

    ‘A chemical pregnancy is like a cruel joke. You take an early pregnancy test around the time your period is due that shows a faint positive. Naturally, you get excited and start spreading the joyful news that you’re expecting. Then, a few days later you get your period and the doctor says, “It was just a chemical pregnancy.”
    No one really knows how common chemical pregnancies are, but some researchers have theorized that as many as 70% of conceptions end in miscarriage. Women who are not actively trying to conceive and not closely watching their menstrual cycles may have chemical pregnancies and never know it; in other cases, chemical pregnancy could be a reason (but not the only possible reason) why a menstrual period arrives a few days late.’

    Previously, I used the figure of 50% of pregnancies ending in miscarriage, but according to the above, it could be as much as 70%. – That’s a lot of souls going straight up to Heaven!

    Do you think maybe that in Heaven, all the Christians are huddled together in a corner, surrounded by billions of foetal souls?

  25. The question is what is it? If its a person then abortion is murder. Are you Chris not opposed to the brutal murder of innocent human beings?

  26. Chris Woods said:

    Surprise, surprise. Avoidant questions. But I’ll try to answer them anyway…

    “Is it a person?”
    Is what a person? An unborn infant at 36 weeks? An unborn infant at 24 weeks? A foetus at 12 weeks? A small collection of cells a day after conception? Or do you mean the infant in the picture? If the latter is the case, then I would call it a dead miscarriage/abortion that had been cleaned, posed and beautifully lit.
    What question are you asking?

    “Are you Chris not opposed to the brutal murder of innocent human beings?”
    No, I am not, not opposed to the brutal murder of innocent human beings.

    Now would mind answering the six questions of mine that you keep ignoring…

    1) Is killing unborn infants an effective method of keeping souls out of Hell? Yes or No?

    2) Bearing in mind the total lack of Scriptural support for the theory, are you sure babies and unborn infants go to Heaven? Yes or No?

    3) Bearing in mind the huge amount of Biblical baby killing perpetrated by God, compared to the total lack of infanticide perpetrated by the Devil, isn’t murdering children more Godly than diabolical? Yes or No?

    4) Is, as you inferred, God ‘simply morally reprehensible’? Yes or No?

    5) At what age does God decide to damn children rather than reward them? Pick a number between 1 and 18.

    6) The numbers clearly indicate that there are far more people in Heaven than have ever been born. Can this really be true or are your presuppositions tragically and horrendously wrong? Yes or No?

  27. I have repeatedly answered but you have accused me of avoidance and that is because you have read through the lens of your pre-suppositions. Like the other Chris you remain determined to cling to the notion that nothing+chance+time=everything (even ‘notion’ is raising it to a status above it’s sheer foolishness).

    You and I have motive to our questions. We set traps and leading questions in an endeavour to expose the other because we see the other is wrong. Equally, the question about the unborn was also a trap. I wanted to demonstrate you struggle answering a straightforward question about the value of human life, and human dignity. You could have answered the question of personhood through the application of logic. Instead you obliged with an answer that amounted to obfuscation demonstrating the moral corruption that underpins the atheistic worldview.

    You asked what is confusing and contradictory about your narrative? To understand you would need to read your contributions from a worldview that is not illogical at its core. You are without excuse Chris (Romans 1). My motive is love Chris, I care about you, please repent. God’s promises endure forever and he promises to forgive you, give you a new heart, take you from the darkness and into the light. You can be born again today (John 3:3). I’ll pray for you now. Goodbye.

  28. Chris Woods said:

    My only struggle is that you didn’t ask a straight question.

    Straightforward answers then. But as you refuse to even expound on your rather fuzzy question there is more than one.

    I value the life of a dog over the ‘life’ of a 24 week unborn human.
    I value the life of a chicken over the ‘life’ of a 6 week embryo.
    I value the life of a spider over the ‘life’ of a 1 day collection of cells.
    I value the life of an amoeba over the ‘life’ of a human egg at the moment of conception.

    If you want different dates and different animals, just let me know.

  29. Chris Woods said:

    How about dolphin at 36 weeks?

  30. Chris Woods said:

    Every time you ask me a question, I answer it.

    Every time I ask you a question, you don’t. Telling me that you have answered me but I can’t see your answers because I ‘have read through the lens of [my] pre-suppositions’ is just a lie.

    In fact your whole blog, every post is just lie, after lie, after lie.

    You spout some nonsense but are unable to logically think through the repercussions of what you are saying and then, instead of retracting anything at all, you just lie.

    But like so many other creationists you think Lying for Jesus is okay.
    It’s ironic isn’t it, that Heaven is full of unborns and children of all faiths and the only Christians that could ever get in are the Born Agains… But they are all liars and so fail the Good Person Test.

    Don’t pray for me Adrian, pray for yourself.

  31. Are you saying lying is wrong Chris? Where are you going for your standard of morality? Repent. You have displayed the corruption of your worldview. Your words: “I value the life of a dog over the ‘life’ of a 24 week unborn human”.

  32. Chris Woods said:

    “Are you saying lying is wrong Chris?” – Yes.
    “Where are you going for your standard of morality?” – Society.
    “Your words: “I value the life of a dog over the ‘life’ of a 24 week unborn human”.” – As I said, society. Our laws say that abortion up to 24 weeks is legal. Our laws also say that I cannot shoot my dog.

  33. Chris Woods said:

    You see, I even answer the stupid questions that I have answered before.

  34. Chris Woods said:

    This is not a trick question or a trap of any description.
    I am genuinely interested in your thoughts.
    Go, on. Try to answer one of my questions at least.

    70% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.
    Discuss the religious ramifications.

  35. So if society decided Jews were untermensch that would make it right and okay with you? Come on Chris repent of these foolish fallacies you are losing all dignity and credibility with it. If someone is willing to in all seriousness rate the life of a puppy above a person it’s not much of a leap of imagination to see how societies have adopted the most abhorrent practices. This worldview is morally corrupt though helpful for seeing the consequences when societies rebel against their creator God. It has happened throughout human history and the result is moral decay, fiscal irresponsibility and self destruction. You want to know why the rate of teenage suicide is on the increase, childhood neglect, sexual crime and exploitation, divorce, domestic violence, pornography, STDs are rampant see the worldview that puts the absurd theories of evolution before human life and dignity. Thank you for your contributions they are informative, disturbing but not the least surprising. Only the fool believes in his heart there is no God (Psalm 14:1)

  36. Chris Woods said:

    Yet again, you ignore my question.
    Instead you make a link between a woman’s right to abort up to 24 weeks and the Holocaust. (This is Ray Comfort’s argument and it is reprehensible.)

    You say that I have lost all dignity and credibility because of my views yet you would rather shoot a dog rather than give the morning after pill to a university student.

    Then, not content with comparing pro-choice women with Nazis, you then spuriously connect them to society’s supposed moral decay, fiscal irresponsibility, (really? fiscal irresponsibility?!) and self destruction.

    And your final stupid, stupid, stupid conclusion is that the theory of evolution is to blame for…
    the increase in rate of teenage suicide,
    childhood neglect,
    sexual crime and exploitation,
    divorce,
    domestic violence,
    pornography,
    and the fact that STDs are apparently rampant.

    Back any of these claims with any evidence and I will be prepared to listen.
    The real truth though is that we have considerably less domestic violence and sexual crimes than we have ever done throughout history. Five million people died of syphilis in AD1500. Was this because of Darwin?

    It’s just more lies and misinformation.

  37. Chris Woods said:

    I have answered every single one of your questions. You though, have still not answered any of mine.

    You claim that I have set traps for you. This is not true. I have tried to get you to understand the meaning of what you are saying but in classic Born Again style you refuse to even acknowledge the premise of the question. Which is sad, because the premise is actually yours.

    You believe that all human life is sacred and that it starts at conception. But up to 70% of these sacred human lives miscarry naturally. Abortions account for less than 4% of the total conceptions.
    Furthermore, 90% of abortions are carried out within the first trimester, which is the same three months that your god is wiping out most pregnancies whether they are wanted or not.

    You say that these unborn souls go to Heaven, therefore Heaven is full of the souls of the unborn. The percentage of Born Again Christians in the world is tiny compared to this. (And this is assuming that even the lying ones get in.)
    The reason that you don’t comment on this logical conclusion though, is because you don’t want to even think about it, as it threatens your entire worldview.

    It is proof positive that your fingers are in your ears, whilst you shout, “LA, la la. I’m not listening, I can’t hear you!”

    Typical Born Again.

  38. Chris Woods said:

    Adrian,

    I truly pity you.

    But more than this, I feel really sorry for your two boys. You spent most of their childhood away and then, when you finally do come home, you turn into a mentalcase.
    During the day, you prance around the streets in a kilt, dragging a big wooden cross, telling those you meet that they aren’t good people. And then you spend your evenings watching Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron on Living Waters on TV and then listen to Way Of The Master Radio with, (guess who?) Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. Then after being buoyed up by their inane ramblings, you repeat their lies and ill-thought-out twaddle on your blog only to be publicly ridiculed by people who are able to think for themselves.

    You tell me that I have lost dignity and credibility? For the sake of your boys, before they’ve both left home for good and aren’t coming back. – Sort your life out!

    I say this out of love.

    Chris Woods

  39. Chris Woods said:

    Too harsh?
    I wouldn’t know, I am an atheist and therefore morally corrupt.

    70% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.
    Discuss the religious ramifications…

  40. Your increasingly vitriolic contributions are illustrations of the the angry atheistic mindset that has led to such horrendous crimes throughout human history. I marvel how someone’s heart could be so hardened to the helpless plight of a person in the womb, which really should be the safest place on earth. Unwittingly you have helped me understand better the account of God hardening Pharaoh’s heart while Egypt was in the midst of plagues. Despite the weight of evidence that it really could not go well for him if he continued in his obstinate stand against the created God of heaven and earth. I would read the story and wonder how could one man be so irrationally stubborn? Thank you for your contributions.

  41. Chris Woods said:

    There is no vitriol. Like I said, I pity you.
    If I mention your family, it’s because I care.
    If I tell you to sort your life out, I do so out of love.

    What are the horrendous historical crimes perpetrated by atheists that you speak of? Please tell me.
    Or are you simply making things up again? You know, like the domestic violence, sexual crimes and STDs caused by evolutionists, or society’s fiscal irresponsibility and self destruction caused by Pro-choice women.

    Pathological lying is a recognised medical condition. It means that you really can’t help yourself. Although it can be serious and upsetting for normal people, for you it will mean eternal damnation.

    I marvel how someone’s heart could be so hardened to the helpless plight of a person at university, who is going to have her life ruined because her GP is a nutter who won’t let her have the morning after pill. A GP who later shot her dog because there’s nothing in the Ten Commandments that says it’s morally wrong.

    70% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.
    Discuss the religious ramifications…

    Alternatively answer any one of the other questions I have put to you.

  42. This is the answer to your question about miscarriages. You will not understand the answer so you need to give yourself time to think about it:

    “Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, ‘who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now gird up your loins like a man, and I will ask you, and you instruct me! Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding, who sets its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? (Job:1-5).

    There are four chapters in Job that will help put you in your cosmic place. From that you will see that God, the one who gives you the very air you wilfully take without thanking him, is sovereign over all his creation. Chris you have a man centred view of the universe. It’s puny, arrogant and results in folly. If you can’t see the parallel with the Nazi holocaust and the brutal murder of millions of babies in the womb each year it does no more than further expose the folly of your thinking and the devastating effects of brainwashing children with atheistic Darwinian evolution theories that says we are little more than highly evolved apes. And then you have the temerity to borrow from the Christian worldview to make moral judgements about what is reprehensible! The thing is you know God exists, for you could know nothing apart from him. You use the universe’s scientific, mathematical, logical and moral constants he set in place, you use them to deny him and you use them to engage in this dialogue. In fact the only reason you engage in this dialogue is because you know God and you hate him.

    Ephesians 4 will help you to understand what’s going on with you. It tells us that your mind is futile. You are darkened in your understanding, alienated from the life of God because of our ignorance and hardness of heart. You have become callous, given up to sensuality, and greedy to practice every kind of impurity. We have seen this is in your valuing of a puppy above that of a person. From a human perspective it would seem senseless to even try and continue reasoning with you. This is as may be but then God did step in and save Saul who became the Apostle Paul. He was a persecutor and fierce opponent of Jesus Christ and yet God rescued him from his folly.

    God may yet choose to save you but you must humble yourself before Almighty God, who you know exists, repent confess your sins and he promises for save you for he would have none perish. It’s time to repent Christ. You are without excuse. Only the fool says in his heart there is no God. Your knee shall bow, and your tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, either in this life or the next. It’s your call.

  43. Chris Woods said:

    Thank you so much for such a long and considered answer. And thank you once more for bringing up Job. Job is my third favourite biblical book and I know it well.

    Firstly, the five lines you quote are from Job 38. (You just reference them as Job:1-5.) Is this just a typo or do you not know what you are referencing?
    Secondly, you have chosen to quote from the New American Standard Bible. Is this because you have found the quote in a Ray Comfort book and not your own Bible? I know Job 38 is one of Ray’s favourites as well as my own.

    Which bits of Job do you think would be helpful to me?
    Is it the part where God and Satan have a bet that no matter Satan did to Job, Job would remain a blameless man?
    So with God’s blessing, Satan has all of Job’s 500 oxen, 500 donkeys and 3000 camels stolen. He destroys all 7000 of Job’s sheep and kills all of Job’s many servants except 3. He then goes on to kill all 7 of Job’s sons and all 3 of his daughters plus many more of his eldest sons servants.
    Job remains blameless and so God wins the bet. However this is only round one, as God and Satan have another bet where Satan lays even more misfortune on Job.

    I’m not sure what I can learn from this, other than God is perfectly happy to kill innocents and destroy people’s lives for sport.

    Or is it Job 38 where I can learn about miscarriage and the number of unborn souls in Heaven?

    Job 38 is a long list of things that God knows that Job doesn’t. It is just God showing off to Job, to put him in his place.

    I’ve been through this list and I can’t find anything at all miscarriage.

    Job 38 is also where Ray Comfort quotes from for one of his stupidest lies ever. And that is that God communicates with mankind using radios. I won’t say anymore about it here as it is clearly off topic but if you wish to deny this clear proof that Ray is mental, please do so.

    I have done what you asked of me and I have re-read Job but I really don’t know what on Earth it has to do with my question.
    Are you sure you read my question properly?
    If not, here it again…

    70% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.
    Discuss the religious ramifications…

  44. Let’s back up. Do you believe in God, the creator God, Almighty God, the omnipotent, omniscient, God of our fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

  45. Chris Woods said:

    Great question. Thank you.

    There is actually some debate regarding this.
    I say, (and have repeatedly said), that I am an atheist.
    You, however, have read a book by a man that says that there is no such person as an atheist, and that they all, really believe in the the Abrahamic god. This is the same man who claims that God has been using radio waves to communicate since biblical times.

    Who should you believe? Is it the person who you are talking to, that categorically denies believing in any deity?…
    Or should you believe the liar who’s quite clearly deranged?

    It’s your call.

  46. Chris Woods said:

    By the way, you will see that, yet again, I have answered your question.
    Unsurprisingly though, bearing in mind that your answer to my question regarding miscarriage failed to have anything at all to do with miscarriage in it… YOU HAVE STILL NOT ANSWERED ANY OF MY QUESTIONS.

    I shall leave you to read your Ray Comfort books, listen to Way Of The Master and watch Living Waters, however you will not find any answers to this question from Ray. (By the way, your love of Ray borders on idolatry in my view. Be careful.)

  47. You know, you really do write as if you believe you have all knowledge. This would have you in one of two broad camps. Either one, you are suffering from some kind of personality disorder, psychosis or the like and really believe your suppositions, or two, you are, as the Bible says, a fool. Judging by what we have seen from your pen, and despite the fact you value the life of an unborn person less than that of a puppy, my trust is in the truth found in God’s Word. A bible study will not help, what you need to do is listen to that conscience of yours and repent.

  48. Chris Woods said:

    You said, ‘You know, you really do write as if you believe you have all knowledge.’
    Did you use your senses and your reasoning to come by this judgement? Because I can see very little evidence of either.

    Having the ability to answer a question with a straight answer does not imply that I believe I, ‘have all knowledge.’ It simply means that I have the intellectual capacity to reason. (A characteristic which you seem to lack.)
    For the record, I do not have all knowledge and I have not received revelation from someone who does.
    (As you keep telling me, I could be wrong about everything I know.)

  49. Chris Woods said:

    You question whether I believe my suppositions. Please find below a list of the things I have supposed on this post, along with a percentage score of the likelihood that I believe it to be true.

    1) that you read books by Ray Comfort. – 99%

    2) that you subscribe to Living Waters TV. – 85%

    4) that you subscribe to WOTM radio. – 75%

    5) that you prance around the streets wearing a kilt. – 100%

    6) that your posts are full of lies. – 100% I was going to list all your lies about what evolutionary theory has caused, and your lies about giving women the right to choose causing the banking crisis and social decay, and of course your lies regarding Scripture… But there are simply too many lies to list.

    7) that there is only a small percentage of Christians in Heaven. – 100% the figures speak for themselves.

    8) that creationists use illogical and stupid tactics in place of giving actual answers to questions put to them. – 100%

    If you wish to discuss these,(or indeed any other) pre-suppositions in detail, just let me know which ones. I will, as ever, supply you with answers.

  50. Chris Woods said:

    As for your final comment that a Bible study will not help me…
    I’m pretty sure it won’t.
    I strongly suspect that I know the Bible better than you.
    You have either applied incorrect meanings, (lied) or just quoted stuff from Ray Comfort rather than your own Bible. (And here I am assuming that you actually have a Bible rather than just the complete works of Ray Comfort.)

  51. Chris Woods said:

    Is it a person?
    No. The picture is not a person, it is a foetus.

    Is abortion murder?
    No. Murder is the wilful killing of one or more persons. As a foetus is not a person, abortion is not murder.

    Is it fair to compare abortion with the Holocaust?
    No. The Holocaust was the horrific murder of millions of people. These were people who had memories and loved ones. To compare this to the termination of lifeforms that do not even think, is preposterous.

  52. Chris Woods said:

    At 24 weeks, a foetus has not even started to create neural pathways in the cerebral cortex.
    Without these neural pathways, there are no thoughts, memories or feelings. The fetus is surviving using just its brain stem.
    The following link is brilliant. Please read all of it, or just click on the “When does the fetus’s brain begin to work?” tab on the page.

    Regardless of the lack of neural pathways, the fetal brain is visibly unformed even at 33 weeks.

    Are you suggesting that Jews have no thoughts or feelings, or that their brains are unformed? If not, then there is no truth in your evil comparison to the Holocaust.

  53. Chris Woods said:

    For some reason, this blog won’t let me directly post the links to the scientific websites which verify my comments above.
    They are with Creditaction but he refuses to post them. My apologies to all seekers of truth.

  54. Seekers of truth need only apply their logic to determine the truth. When considering abortion ask, what is it? If it’s a person then abortion is killing an innocent human being which is morally indefensible. If we meet scientists, or physicians who seek to defend the violent murder of a person in the womb you have to ask what is the motive that causes them to use their science to defend the indefencible. The Bible helps understand, it says, “only the fool believes in his heart there is no God”. The scientists along with Chris needs to repent.

  55. Chris Woods said:

    IT IS NOT A PERSON.

    You say that we should use logic but ignore/suppress the evidence that would allow people to make a reasoned logical judgement.

    You have decided that a fetus is a person and so scientists that present evidence to the contrary must have an ulterior motive to ‘defend the indefensible.’ This is anti-logic and anti-science. You have arrived at a conclusion based on no evidence and then ignore the evidence to the contrary.

    This is a perfect example of how Born Again Christians think and how nothing they say can be believed.

    What reasons do you have to insist that a 24 week fetus is a person?

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